You know, i wonder what would happen if i made a list of all their otherwise attractive cars in the $16k-$17k range and started calling them up one at a time and saying "i've got $15.5k in cash, that means i can afford a $14k car before tax and registration. If i were happy with your car after a test drive i'd be willing to put that money down with no further negotiation," what would happen? Most of them would presumably laugh at me. Some might say yes, but then try to renege once i got there, and either insist that i could really afford a little more, or just offer financing. I wonder if any of them would take me up on it and actually follow through? Probably pretty low odds, but i wonder if they're so low that it's not worth trying.