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10 July 2004 @ 06:35 pm
FF10 End  
I finally beat FF10, and am listening to the soundtrack now. (Bought it about a year ago, AnimeNation had it on sale and i figured i would want it eventually =)

Still have a few questions though.

(Spoilers for the end of FF10)

So what exactly was Yevon summoning the Dream of the Fayth _for_? Why did he decide to become a godlike thing? Presumably this happened after the Bevelle/Zanarkand war?

Obviously Square was practicing for the merger with Enix at the time, and pulled out the old "all organized religions are evil and deceitful" line again. Bevelle used machina to defeat Yevon's country, killed all the summoners they could, and probably did their best to kill Yevon himself, then tried to outlaw the hymn of the fayth. Is there any way in which they didn't manage to make the origins of the Yevon religion the exact opposite of how it started out? Plus throw in the usual corruption of the modern priests and such just to top it off.

Why did Yuna have to summon the Aeons and kill them all? If you haven't found all the Aeons they presumably wouldn't have shown up. So if she hadn't summoned them there for him to posssess, what could Yevon have done about it? Did they actually want to die? And if so, why? And does that mean that Anima, Yojimbo, and the Magus Sisters are just fucked if you didn't find them? Or would they have disapeared like the other fayth who weren't present? Which gets us back to the question of why Yuna even needed to summon them at all.

Will there by more fayth/aeons in the future? I have to presume so, since there were summoners before Yevon came around.

The eternal Auto-Life kinda sucked any drama out of the final fight. I can understand it for the Aeons, where it's remotely possible that you could have leveled them up past a point where you could reasonably beat them, but i wish they hadn't done it for Yevon himself.

Seymour was kind of a weak ass semi-final boss. Of course everything was pretty weak by that point given how much i'd leveled up. Kimahri was stomping all over everything when i equiped him with his Ultimate weapon, with Auron only a little weaker (but painfully slower.) Wakka would have been doing as well if i'd actually found his weapon, but he was capped at 9999 instead.

I presume Seymour's original plan was to be Yuna's guardian and thereby end up becoming her Final Aeon, so that he would end up replacing Jecht as Sin, and then figure out how to deal with Yevon from there. Or maybe he didn't care about being number one as long as he could have Sin's power, who knows.

Once that failed did he sneak into Sin immediatly, or did he have to wait until they blasted a hole in him first? Once inside i guess he planned to subvert the whole thing from within, but hadn't actually got around to doing anything yet? He seemed kind of like an incompetent Kefka, always planning to seize the power to become a god, but never quite managing it. His music was very cool however :)

Did Auron think Tidus would stick around? Or did he know he would disapear? I'm wondering who/what he meant when he said "this world is yours now."

Auron's theme music is cool, which brings up a minor complaint about the music, i didn't realize till listening to the soundtrack and reading along that that was actually his theme, or that he even had a theme. Nor did i realize that Tidus, Yuna, Lulu, and Rikku had themes. But why didn't Kimahri and Wakka have themes? And i wish they'd done a better job of associating the themes with the characters.

So the ending was pretty depressing, although given the last bit Tidus is either still alive in some sense, or having fun in the Farplane. Did we ever get a good idea of what exactly the Farplane was (other than someplace where the dead go when sent) and how it came about. One has to wonder if the dead can wonder around in the real world, and the dead are wandering around in the Farplane, what's keeping them from walking out the door back into the living world even after they've been sent?

I did notice that the scene was very similar if not identical to the one at the begining of the blitzball game in Zanarkand at the start of the game. Of course without more context it's hard to tell what if anything that means.

So given the trailers i've seen for FF10-2, Tidus or someone like him comes back at some point. Either that or Yuna was just halucinating. However i should resist buying that until i have a job, or unless i find a used copy for really cheap.


So now i just need to go back, play more blitzball, try to beat that !@#%$^& chocobo race, kill Omega Weapon, and level up and play with the monster Arena. Oh, and find the Jecht Spheres and talk to the fayth in the temples.
Current Music: FF10 Soundtrack
Kirinkirinn on July 10th, 2004 07:07 pm (UTC)
Whoo, that's a lot of stuff. Hai! Sou! My takes on all your questions:

Granted, it's been a while, so...
Yevon: why become god-like? Well, he was losing a war... ultimate last-ditch weapon things look attractive, yes? There are probably more subtleties, but I thought it was along those lines.

Why we have to kill Aeons? Having been controlling Sin and many generations of final summons, Yevon is adept at possessing Aeons. So when Jecht goes down he takes the next available ones, the ones Yuna's hanging onto. You gotta make 'em disperse to get at Yevon. (Why not just leave them somewhere far away first if we suspected this might happen? Eh, well...)
I think the Fayth at the very least don't *mind* what they see as a (permanent?) rest at this point. Meanwhile, people *do* believe that Fayth/summons are gone for good after this, and that still holds two years later at the start of X-2. Of course, another game's worth of plot means more complications...

Do you actually have auto-life in the final battle? How can you even tell when Yevon never casts anything but a percentage-based spell? My favorite trick for playing with the ineffectual Yevon-thing was letting him kill himself down to the point where I finished him off with a single hit from a Piercing Moogle.

Seymour... yeah, wanted to destroy everyone, but in the end was more creepy than effective. Ah well, that's derangement for you.

I think Auron may have been unsure of Tidus' fate... He knew he was dreamstuff, but there seemed to be some question as to whether prolonged contact to "real" Spira could bind him to it or something... on the other hand, he didn't seem surprised to see him showing up on the farplane(?) in the ending.
I took "this is your world now" to simply refer to the currently living people, as opposed to all the dead folks and their assorted hangers-on who'd been pulling the strings recently.

Auron's theme is indeed kick-ass, but yeah, the themes are seldom fit into the game. In fact, I think Lulu's theme exists *only* on the soundtrack and as a bonus unlockable in the sphere theater. I do remember Auron's playing at some appropriate moments, but they were often so short that I had to pause it to hear the whole song.

To really get full closure (not spoiling, don't worry) on what _exactly_ to make of Tidus last scene, you actually need to get the _bonus_ ending of X-2.
As for the start of X-2 (again, no spoilers past the preview/intro), Rikku found a very grainy sphere showing someone who looks an awful lot like Tidus in a jail. So they investigate. You don't really get to the bottom of it 'til a good way through the game.

Definitely seek out the Jecht spheres, they're fun and good backstory. Critical for lots of FFX yaoi fanfic/doujin. ^_-

Keep in mind Omega weapon isn't tough at all compared to later Arena bosses. In fact, I think I remember you can bribe him for good stuff if you're rolling in dough. Also has a nifty blue spell for Kimahri.

Good luck with the Chocobos. -_-
DonAithnendonaithnen on July 10th, 2004 07:38 pm (UTC)
Last ditch war effort, could be. But why didn't he actually destroy Bevelle after that? And wasn't it Sin that actually destroyed Zanarkand? They weren't really clear on that. They mentioned the Bevelle troops getting turned back at Mt. Gagazat, and the fayth showing up after that, they never mention Bevelle actually reaching Zanarkand.

Yeah, i know the explanation about Yevon possessing them, but like you said, why not just leave them elsewhere? Could he even grab them if Yuna hadn't summoned them? Where exactly are they when they're not in battle? I had the vague impression that they were just kicking it back at the temple of the fayth, which would mean that if Yevon could grab them there, he should be just as capable of grabbing any other fayth in the world, not just the ones Yuna could summon.

And yeah, despite what people think it should still be possible to create fayth/aeons and learn to summon them. Like i said, they were around before Yevon, it's not like they should be dependant on him for existance. They just need someone to try.

Yup, you have Auto-Life. Yevon cast Ultima on me and killed my entire party. He did a lot of Gravaja to me, but he did other stuff as well. You can see the halos if you look closely.

That's whaat i was kind of expecting to happen with Tidus, that love for Yuna would anchor him in the "real" world or something like that. Guess i have to give them credit for the guts to kill him off instead. Or were they planning FF10-2 even then? :)

What do you have to do to get the bonus ending for FF10-2? Or does it involve spoilers?

I don't know about Omega, but Ultima gave me 99 Pendulums for 1.4 million gill :)
Kirinkirinn on July 11th, 2004 07:38 am (UTC)
I believe getting the ending in question for X-2 involves both getting 100% plot completion (nearly impossible the first time through the game unless you're following a FAQ to the letter or being extremely paranoid even by our standards, but reasonably easy on the second time through since there's actually like 105% available given a few alternate branch possibilities) *and* doing one little silly thing halfway through the game that's hardly intuitive. To be as spoiler-free as possible: if you ever happen to find yourself in the farplane, you might want to randomly hit the action button a lot. ^_^;

And, huh, I don't think Yevon ever used anything but gravija on me, and that's in several times facing him. *shrug*

Actually, I don't think anyone ever does create more Fayth; not sure whether it's still possible or why not, the exact meta-physics there are kind of unexplained. As for any any aeons being seen again, well, can't go into that without real X-2 spoilers, really.
tierceltiercel on July 11th, 2004 08:27 am (UTC)
My understanding is this... to get the special cutscene at the end, you have to mash the X button in the farplane, both in the middle and at the end, and it doesn't matter if you have 100% or not. To get the bit at the very very end, with the "cherish" conversation, you have to have 100% plus the button-mashing.
Kirin: tonberrykirinn on July 11th, 2004 09:46 am (UTC)
Re: hmmm...
Yeah, I think you're right. Since I wasn't FAQ-ing (mostly) I missed both the special spot and the 100% the first time through, so I got both extra ending bits for the first time on my second game.
DonAithnendonaithnen on July 11th, 2004 01:59 pm (UTC)
So does that mean FFX-2 has New Game Plus??!?!?! *bounces excitedly*

The meta-physics are unexplained, but we're told that Zanarkand used Summoners and Aeons (and presumably Fayth, since that seems to be the standard way to create Aeons) and the Bevelle used machina. So clearly Summoners and Aeons were around before Sin, and them implication is that they were around before Yevon, so killing off Sin and Yevon shouldn't have had any effect on the process of creating Fayth and Aeons in the first place.

I don't want any spoilers abut whether or not any of that stuff _does_ happen, i'm just arguing that given what little meta-physics we've been told there shouldn't be anything preventing it.

Of course there would be less motivation to sacrifice yourself to make a Fayth/Aeon now that Sin is gone, but people did it before Sin existed, although it isn't clear if they did so before the conflict with Bevelle started or not (i had the impression they did, but no quotes to back it up.)

Of course given that you seem to keep your personality and such after the process it wouldn't be such a bad thing. As long as you didn't end up like Anima at least *blech* Wonder how she screwed up to end up with that?
Kirinkirinn on July 11th, 2004 02:32 pm (UTC)
X-2 has a *sort of* New Game Plus. You start over at level one. *But* you keep all your dress spheres and most of your items that aren't related to the plot, which includes stat-boosting accessories, so you have things pretty easy anyway. I also found that always switching through Gambler (with Double EXP learned) on boos fights can keep you well ahead of the experience curve with almost no effort. "Always Critical" and "Double Items" on that dress also come in very handy.

Another possibility on the "making new Fayth" question... perhaps it was a skill only possessed by the old Zanarkand Priests, of which Yevon was one? I mean, summoners in the last few hundred years seemed critical to fighting both Sin and random fiends, but they never made more summons... they went on pilgramages to meet the few existing ones. Perhaps with Yevon gone the technique has been completely lost? (Granted, the Final Summoning is an odd exception to this theory... but it does seem to be fairly special circumstances; perhaps it relied on interacting with the massive Fayth/Aeon presence of Sin?)

As for Anima, the few glimpses we get of Seymour's mom make it seem like she was pretty screwed up and guilt-ridden to begin with... I'm guessing the appearance of a Summon is basically a representation of the inner feelings of the Fayth that became it, or something like that. Though Bahamut must have been one interesting little kid, in that case.
DonAithnendonaithnen on July 11th, 2004 02:52 pm (UTC)
Um, if only old Zanarkand Priests could do it, how exactly did Seymour's mom manage to make Anima? :)

Though Bahamut must have been one interesting little kid, in that case.

Yeah, not to mention the Magus sister whose primary attack seems to be shooting stuff out of her butt =P
Kirin: tonberrykirinn on July 11th, 2004 03:04 pm (UTC)
Shit, I forgot about Seymour's mom in my theory. Ummm... Errr... Look! Behind you! An Amazing-class Chocobo!

(Also, goofy references to past games get a pass from all plot theories. Yeah, that's the ticket.)
DonAithnendonaithnen on July 11th, 2004 05:38 pm (UTC)
Obviously, but i'm impressed that you could discuss both things in consecutive paragraphs without making the connection yourself :)

Ooohh! Will that help me get through the !@^%$%! chocobo race easier? :)
tierceltiercel on July 10th, 2004 07:12 pm (UTC)
Talking to the fayth in the temples answers most of your questions about the end battle and what Yevon's deal was. Also, if you didn't talk to Maechen at Mt. Gagazet, do that too. Although you probably did, because I think that's when he explains about the Hymn.

Anything else falls under the "Why didn't they throw a Phoenix Down on Aeris" rule.
DonAithnendonaithnen on July 10th, 2004 07:42 pm (UTC)
Heehee :)

I've talked to Maechen, and i've talked to the Magus Sisters' fayths, but they just said something cryptic. Haven't gotten around to the others yet, though like i said, i'm planning on it.