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14 June 2004 @ 01:28 pm
This started out as a reponse to one of Kirinn's comments in my LJ (how sad is that? =) but i decided to make it its own post since it was getting so long. In part because this way if my computer crashes in the middle Semagic will have have auto-backed it up for me :)

Kirinn: I eventually decided that once it got going I would have quite liked the FFX weapon system *if* they had added one this to it: the ability to *dis*-assemble weapons.

You can make your weapons do plenty of nifty and useful things, but once you use up items upgrading one, you can't get them back to put them on a better weapon you find later. Bah. This makes trying to build "favorite" weapons any time before the very end of the game kind of useless, and instead encourages you to hang on to a jillion specialized weapons and swap them as needed, which makes it barely different from the old days of non-customizeable weapons. Ah well.

The plotting Seymour-wise is not too subtle, no. On the other hand, even though it's true that Tidus is completely dense at the beginning, the plotting Zanarkand-wise is not as straightforward as it first appears.

Is some ways that sounds like it might almost keep what vague excitement there is going a little longer.

One of my other big complaints is that the weapons and armor seem to have no attack power or defense power or any other stats other than their attributes. Which means that when you get a new item the only interesting and exciting bit is if it has more usefull abilities in a good combination than the last set. However once you get to the part where you're making your own stuff it becomes more and more just "does this have more slots than the last thing did?" So if they delay that point later than they otherwise could it might be better at maintaining your interest. On the other hand maybe continuously remaking your weapons to try out new combinations would be fun enough to make up for the lack of interest when finding new weapons. Which admitedly isn't really that exciting the way things are.

In FF7 didn't the weapons have attack points? I _know_ they had all kinds of variations on Materia slots, single, linked, and slots that didn't give you expierence points, so there was actually some debate between weapons without a strict numbers comparison. Was a weapon with two sets of two linked slots better than one with six single slots? Depends on what you want to do.

Having Attack and Defense stats on the equipment would be good i think. Do you want the weapon with the really high attack or the weapon with lots of slots? (The ultimate weapons would presumably have both =) They also really should have some kind of accessories or other equipment slots. Two is just _way_ too boring. I don't know if the accessories or other types should have customizable slots like the others or be more like FF9 equipment with set stats/attributes, but in either case, i want more stuff to play with =P FF9 was toy heaven :)

About Tidus/Zanarkand, thanks to some ill timed spoilery comments, i believe by owldragon, i have the general idea that not all is as it seems with Tidus and/or Zanarkand, well, more of with Tidus. A lot of possibilites have gone through my head as to the exact nature of the mystery, which i try not to focus on. One thought is that if Auron is right and Sin does want to die for whatever reason, then perhaps it created Tidus with memories of a messed up father and son relationship and then instructed Auron to tell him that Sin is his father, so that Tidus will be motivated to kill it. Not quite sure what the relation between Auron and Sin would be in that case though.

However i'm trying not to think really spoilery thoughts *la la la la* So instead i'm focusing on the idea that Tidus was a real person at some point, but was killed and abosorbed by Sin a thousand years ago. Then for whatever reason Sin created copies of Tidus, Jecht, and Auron in the present with all the memories of the original people. This would fit with there being ruins of Zanarkand and Tidus, Auron, and Jecht all wandering around at various points with memories of the place while also being the least spoilery of all the alternative possibilities. So that's what i'm trying to think, and please don't correct me if i'm wrong as i most likely am :)

But in any case, with his present knowledge of the world Tidus is still being a dork. He remembers Zanarkand being attacked by Sin, and now he finds Sin wandering around and everyone says there are ruins of a place called Zanarkand that was destroyed a thousand years ago by Sin. And Auron seems to go along with this (not that Tidus has done anything intelligent like pressing him on the issue) However he keeps making comments that indicate that he doesn't really think they're the same place, as if he thinks that if he could travel far enough he would find another place with the identical name that had also been attacked by Sin but not totally destroyed and was actually his Zanarkand. Gah!

I'm also confused why he talks about the differences and similarities between Zanarkand and Spira. Is Spira the name of the world, or just the large group of islands? And was the term not used a thousand years ago in Zanarkand? You'd think Tidus couldn't have been so insular that he wouldn't know the name of anything but the city he lived in. Although that would be one argument for a totally artificial nature, er, wait, not thinking that! *la la la la*

And come to mention it, how exactly does Tidus know Auron? When he first ran into him right after the Sin attack it sounded like he already knew him. But perhaps i misinterpreted his "what are you doing here" comment, and it was meant as "what are you doing here during this attack you random person i don't know," although that would seem a little odd since there were pleanty of other people around at the begining of the attack who Tidus didn't question. Of course the answer to that question is probably spoilery, so i probably don't want to know :)
Current Mood: geekygeeky
Sister Atom Bomb of Courteous Debateakiko on June 14th, 2004 01:39 pm (UTC)
One thought is that if Auron is right and Sin does want to die for whatever reason, then perhaps it created Tidus with memories of a messed up father and son relationship and then instructed Auron to tell him that Sin is his father, so that Tidus will be motivated to kill it. Not quite sure what the relation between Auron and Sin would be in that case though.

This whole bit is largely explained in the final boss battle.

And come to mention it, how exactly does Tidus know Auron? When he first ran into him right after the Sin attack it sounded like he already knew him.

Also explained at some point in the game.

Has Auron joined your party yet? Have you heard anything about Braska at all? That should answer a couple of your questions.
DonAithnendonaithnen on June 14th, 2004 01:55 pm (UTC)
Thnak you for managing to be somewhat helpfull without being spoilery at all :)

Auron has joind the party. I'm at the bit after the big battle on the beach with Sin where the Crusaders and Al Behd get slaughtered, and right before they go into the rock and lightning temple, where they get Ramuh i'm guessing.

It doesn't really answer any of my questions though. Auron acts like he knows Tidus but no one really questions him on it, so they're all running around with a whole lot of assumptions. Tidus hasn't actually asked Auron if he remembers Zanarkand, if he remembers "rescuing" Tidus there, etc. Auron has confirmed that he knows Jecht, and he's said or implied that he is indeed the Jecht that is Tidus' father, but that's about it.

Now normally when you encounter someone you recognize and they seem to recognize you back, it's safe to assume that all the stuff you remember happening with them actually happened. However Tidus is in a bit of a weird situation, with apparnet time travel, and werid toxins having potentially screwed up his memory, and everyone thinking he's a little nuts for claiming to be from some place that doesn't exist anymore. In such a case if _i_ were Tidus i'd take Auron aside and have a long chat about what exactly _he_ remmebers, and if he knows how he ended up here instead of back a thousand years ago.

And most importantly, given the fragmentary nature of what we've been told so far, it seems that Jecht asked Auron to take care of Tidus sometime in the present, and _then_ Auron rescued Tidus in the past, so it _seems_ like Auron managed to go back in time to fetch Tidus. If i were Tidus i'd be really keen to know if that's actually what happened, and if so how he managed it and if he can teach Tidus how to do it. (Since Tidus is so intent on getting back to Zanarkand, not that i'm sure if that's a really wise idea given the situation when he left.)

But again, i don't really want spoilers, just expressing my confusion :)
Sister Atom Bomb of Courteous Debateakiko on June 14th, 2004 02:01 pm (UTC)
(whoa, that pop-up comment box *is* weird.)

Anyway. Jecht asked Auron to take care of Tidus. Has Yuna mentioned anything about 'legendary guardian auron' yet? (Probably, if he's in your party...) Or how she found out about some spoilery stuff?

I don't remember what order things happened in the game, and I've got some nice doujinshi that take on the ending and the whole ten years ago stuff. How Auron acquired Tidus is also explained (or explainable) at the very end.

Play the game, grasshopper.
DonAithnendonaithnen on June 14th, 2004 02:15 pm (UTC)
Heh, you and tiercel :)

Yes, Jecht asking Auron to take care of Tidus has been mentioned, what wasn't clear was _when_ it was mentioned. In Zanarkand before Jecht disapeared? Or in Spira after Jecht reapeared?

What i _know_ is that a guy named Jecht mysteriously appeared ten years and three months ago, modern time, and became Braska's guardian. Auron either already was or became Braska's other guardian shortly thereafter. Jecht told Yuna lots of stories about Zanarkand.

About the same time, ten years ago, Braska defeated Sin and caused a Calm. Some time after that Braska (presumably) died in circumstances that haven't been explained yet. Sometime after that Jecht disapeared. Auron also went missing as well, although not quite as thuroughly since Yuna thought they might find him in a bar when she heard he was about, but has no idea where Jecht is or even if he's still alive.

So present day Tidus shows up and starts spouting off about Zanarkand, and Yuna says she believes him because her father's guaridan told her about Zanarkand. They compare notes, time of disapearance/reappearance, the Jecht shot, etc, and decide that it seems likely that their Jechts are the same person.

Auron shows up and doesn't say much, but confirms that he knows Tidus, and that Jecht was Tidus' father. He also privately tells Tidus that Sin is Jecht, without saying anything about how that came about. He doesn't say if he was originally from Zanarkand or was just visiting. He doesn't even confirm that Tidus and Jecht were indeed from Zanarkand, or that he's ever even been there as far as i can tell.
Sister Atom Bomb of Courteous Debateakiko on June 14th, 2004 03:20 pm (UTC)
Telling you would completely spoil the end of the game. So get to the final boss battle and find out, already. ;)

And no, Auron won't tell how Jecht became Sin. That would make life too easy.
tierceltiercel on June 14th, 2004 01:51 pm (UTC)
Patience, grasshopper. All your questions will be answered in due time.

And while yes, Tidus is a complete doofus, I'd like to point out that

a. Tidus might *want* to press Auron for details, but do you really think Auron is likely to answer him?
b. Spira is the entire world, but as far as Tidus is concerned it's completely separate from the Zanarkand he remembers. After all, the culture and customs are nothing like what he's used to, so it's natural for him to refer to them as two separate places. That's my justification, anyway.

My recommendation is to relax a little bit; your questions will be answered in the fullness of time. Just play the game.

Oh, and some of the weapons/armor do give percent boosts to your attack or defense, at least. And the elemental affinity can be really helpful. I don't mind the weapons in this game - I *hated* the way 9 did its weapons. I kept having to use less powerful weapons/armor to learn the stupid skills, and it drove me nuts.
DonAithnendonaithnen on June 14th, 2004 02:01 pm (UTC)
Heehee, that was my intent :)

If Tidus tried to press Auron for answers and Auron remained silent or gave him cryptic answers i would completly understand. I just don't get Tidus not even trying.

And your explanation of the Zanarkand/Spira distinciton sounds like the best that's going to come along :)

Yes, i noticed the percentage boost things, but that's not really what i was talking about, as i'm sure you know :)

Yeah, having to equip less pwoerfull weapons and armor to learns stuff was a little annoying. However the true fun comes when you've learned almost everything and have a wide range of equipment to play with and you know you're going to be fighting a certain kind of monster.

Going through and equiping the right set of equipment and abilities to make sure a particular enemy couldn't do _anything_ to you was a fun kind of little puzzle game :)
Sister Atom Bomb of Courteous Debateakiko on June 14th, 2004 02:05 pm (UTC)
I forgot to answer this up there, so I'll do it here. I think Tidus wants to go to Zanarkand to find out for himself what happened. To see if it really is the city he remembers.

What's disturbing is that I saw a guy dressed as Auron at Animazement this year, and I recognized his sword as the 'Beast catcher' one. Probably because Ben spent 20 hours or so using the damned thing to catch monsters for the monster arena.
tierceltiercel on June 14th, 2004 02:08 pm (UTC)
Well, that sword design also shows up for a couple of other major abilities - either Triple AP or Break Damage Limit or both, I can't quite remember. But yeah, fan points to you.

Meanwhile, don't answer any more of his questions! It only encourages him. ^_-
DonAithnendonaithnen on June 14th, 2004 02:16 pm (UTC)
Meanwhile, don't answer any more of his questions! It only encourages him. ^_-

Heehee :)

Well i _am_ a cat, with all the curiosity that comes with it ;)
tierceltiercel on June 14th, 2004 02:06 pm (UTC)
Just tell yourself that the Tidus/Auron conversation happened offscreen. Alternatively, tell yourself that Tidus knows Auron won't answer him, so he doesn't bother.

I still think FF9 weapons were boring and annoying. And if you like playing around with abilities and whatnot so enemies can't do anything to you, you're definitely in the right game. Wait until you get the ability to add things to the slots, and I bet you'll love it.